| Author | Post |
|---|
morg77
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Monroe, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |  |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 15th, 2008 04:55 am |
|
I can't speak for atvs or horses but I mountain bike in the summers. I can understand wanting other sports to pay more fees but realisticly speaking how much upkeep is needed for mtn biking or hiking? For these sports brushing once a year is mostly it, and that most of the time is done by volunteers such as the Michigan Moutain Bike Association. It costs so much more for snowmobiles with fuel and upkeep on groomers. All of these other sports don't require a groomer to run down the trails every day.
I am in favor of the rate increses. However people should only have to pay for what they are going to use. Atvs and Horses tear up the trails more so I can see an extra fee for repair issus but the rest just seems a little much.
|
beagledoo
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 15th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 04:05 am |
|
| It looks like a few of you guys up north resent out of state riders. I hope it's just a few. I love to come up to Michigan to ride. The trails are great. Down here in Indiana the DNR will bust you for just trying to get to a field to ride. I only get to ride in Michigan about twice a winter. Same story as the other guys. Cost of fuel, cost of cabin, and meals. I'm about to get priced out of the sport. I can handle $10 more for trail pass, if that's what it takes to have smooth trails. I stopped coming up on the weekends a long time ago because I can't take miles and miles of mogles anymore. I like to think that people like me are helping your economy by the money we spend while there. I figure that out of state riders supply more than 70% of the revenue and less than 30% of the wear and tear on the trails. So why should out of state boys pay more? If you say something about hunting tags again... well that's comparing apples to oranges. That's someone accually removing a natural recourse. We are just throwing some snow around. That all said. I hope we out of state riders are welcome this year, because I've been looking forward to it since last April. Let it snow. And be safe on the trails.
|
flylipsdad
Member
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 06:15 pm |
|
| I can only get up to ride 2-3 times a winter{all the costs}but I still spend alot and support the Local Bussinesses.Snomobiling is Michigans real money maker in the winter and it needs the govt. to support it.I already pay Taxes here and think a couple more bucks toward the sledders in the winter would be a Wise investment.Ask upper Mi. bussinesses where they would be without us in the winter and they'll probably tell you Florida or Arizona.I can afford an extra $10.00-15.00---How about the Govt. Matching that?? Its better than turning off the lights when the last bussinessman leaves for Fla. Out-of-staters...$5.00 more a sled-Don't want to chase em away,besides they already pay alot to drive this far.We Need their support TOO!! Smooth trails get my VOTE...I'm gettin to old to do All Moguls.
|
73hurstolds
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 16th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 07:05 pm |
|
| i agree that we need to raise the trail permits,but do not think we should make out of state guys pay more.we need those out of state dollars in mich! i own 6 snomo's and have never had all of them on state trails at the same time.would it be possible to have a transferable trail permit??[black plastic w/clear lens so that you could put them on the machine that you will use that weekend] the plastic holder could be made by a company in mich.[more jobs]. i have 3 larger machines and 3 smaller [wife and daughters do not like larger machines go figure] i would buy 3-4 permits to use ohers could do the same to fit there needs! THE ONE THING WE HAVE TO BALANCE IS COST IF WE RAISE STUFF SO HIGH THAT PEOPLE STOP USING THE TRAILS THEN COST WILL HAVE TO GO UP AGAIN!!!that is why i think transferable might work. i do agree with many others that anyone using the trails[horses,hikers crosscountry skiers]should have pay for using trails or state land to do their sport!!!
|
morg77
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Monroe, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 07:41 pm |
|
beagledoo wrote: If you say something about hunting tags again... well that's comparing apples to oranges. That's someone accually removing a natural recourse.
You make a good point. I didn't think about it like "removing a natural rescorce." My point as a whole though was that the increased price for out of state is a deterant for coming to MI to hunt. Much like increased tags for out of state riders would be.
|
flylipsdad
Member
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 07:57 pm |
|
| Why not transferable permits-I'm with you.I just think that since Tourism is all thats left of Michigans economy,the state should invest in it.No,$5.00 more per sled for out-of-staters isn't gonna fix much..just make-um feel Special--Cause they can't really afford to stay around and volunteer to help clear or sign or the other stuff some of us do. Everybody Sno Dance !!!
|
ictimer
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 16th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Thu Oct 16th, 2008 10:31 pm |
|
The problem we have is that we have someone in office that is trying to fix everything short term. We went to a permanent license plate for trailers, but we all know that this will change back within a couple of years. Are so called Gov also took funds that were allocated for snowmobiling and used those funds for other things. Until we have someone that is running this state and understands the important of recreational activities in Mich offers, it will be hard to come up with a plan that will work.
If you've been privileged to ride some of the trails in the northern lower you may have noticed the forest diminishing, this is also another attempt to raise money to cover other cost. The point I'm trying to make: is we have to have the right leaders in place to help solve the issues we have today. We can come up with many different solutions but if no one at the top is listening it's an endless cycle.
I've been riding and enjoying Mich trail systems for over 25 years and truly want to see a solution that works for many years to come. Paying the $10 extra I'm ok with, but this was the answer a few years back and now look at what their asking for.
|
mcnabbk
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 17th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Oct 17th, 2008 06:07 pm |
|
belorang wrote: Start by making all user's of the trails pay for permits to use the trails not just the Snowmobilers. Have seen horseback riders using the trails and destroying them with the horses hoofs making large divets on the trails. Also Cross country skiers using the trails, and then swear at you because you're on the trail with your machine. people walking their dogs and letting them do their jobs on the trail, I don't know about you but I don't like to have to remove dog crap from my machine or have someone elsehit it and spread it all over the place, besides it STINKS. What is wrong with this picture? We pay to use the trail and they don't but they can destroy it, or swear at you because you are using it and you and I are the one that pay to use it not them. One more way to get more out of you and I for them. I pay for 4 permits each year so that my family ride legal.
You have to pay to play not just the few to pay. We have a very nice trail system let's keep it that way if you want to use the trail shell out the $25.00 bucks for it like I do and most of the rest us us do. Keep the horses off the trail, walk your dogs in your own yard, cross country ski where you should, on a cross country ski trail.
I'm split on this one. I understand the rising cost of fuel, etc. Have been snowmobiling in the Northeastern Lower for 25 years. I now have a family, so we too have 4 sleds to fuel and put permits on. It is getting too expensive to do that more than once a season. I've noticed the last year or so that the trails seem to be less used than in years past. Maybe the economy is getting the best of us and people can't afford it anymore. The same with the boating. Living on Lake Erie, it's getting less activity in the last couple of years with the gas prices the way they are.
I also would like to comment that the two times we did go last year, we didn't see groomers out on the trail. Wit the bad weather, and lack of snow, it didn't seem that we needed grooming as much as in years' past! So where is the money going?
I also agree that other user's of the trails might help for funding of trail maintenance, for all seasons! Maybe not as hefty as the snowmobilier's fees, but a small fee nontheless may help.
|
shimmy
Member
| Joined: | Wed Oct 8th, 2008 |
| Location: | Powell, Ohio USA |
| Posts: | 32 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: |   |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 04:52 pm |
|
| thanks dave i'll take that discount on gas.tim at wolf lake all ready gives discount on rooms. Attachment: 2007 snowmobile UP 036.jpg (Downloaded 127 times)
|
Joe Sixpack
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 20th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 08:47 pm |
|
| i don't like the fact that I have to pay for "trail" permit when I do not ride on groomed trails. My riding consists of frozen lakes and back country unmarked trails. i am dead set against any increase to a "one time only" permit as the DNR said inm 1994 when they rolled out the permit requirement. I think it is unfair, and i will take my chances without on.
|
auburntechnology.com
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 39 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 11:33 pm |
|
| if all users paid a fee we would not have money issuses for maintence. what i am saying is have the other uses pay also. $5 each, hiker, biker, and horse. this would bring more than the proposed current increase. if we add atv and snowmobile at a $5 increase also i think everyone would be happy.
|
auburntechnology.com
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 39 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 20th, 2008 11:38 pm |
|
| i just got my msa magazine. they say money will go towards purchasing permanent easments and convey them to clubs grooming them. as long as a sign is posted to which club is grooming them with my higher fees i am all for it. that way we can get to the people who are not doing their job if it is not done.
|
skidoo82
Member
|
Posted: Wed Oct 22nd, 2008 02:29 pm |
|
| hey shimmy i like the pic were is that .
____________________
skidoo82
|
cat800
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 05:24 pm |
|
| Lets hurt the michigan economy even more by charging out of state fees all for a $10. I live in Indiana and there are several of us traveling north.
|
cat800
Member
| Joined: | Fri Oct 24th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 05:28 pm |
|
| I know it's 35 a day in Canada, but that's a different country, We have other expenses to come north we dont need an out of state fee, we spend plenty to Michigan for our snowmobile trips. Bad idea.
|
auburntechnology.com
Member
| Joined: | Mon Jul 21st, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 39 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Oct 24th, 2008 08:24 pm |
|
i agree do not charge out of state users more. just have everyone pay . have bikers, hikers, and horses, skiers pay $5. they all use the trails and the dnr manages the trails . atv uses already have to get a trail permit. problem solved. then each year after they can raise the cost of it $5 to match our current price. then we will have the best trails year round.
|
flylipsdad
Member
|
Posted: Sun Oct 26th, 2008 10:35 pm |
|
| Just thought since Outa-staters don't have the time to spend up here Volunteering on trail maint. etc. they could throw in an extra $5.00 so the ones doin it could at least have a Soda while they're out there.We live here and whenever we see the Groomer driver at the local bar,we always buy him a"Soda".
|
brad379fishing
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | Alpena, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 02:45 pm |
|
| i think that the state gets enough of money and when the people on the stat can't efford to do very much any way we have 3 sleds you talking 90.00$ in trail permits. now thats nuts nothing like milking the people for all you can!!!!!!!!!!!
____________________
brad
|
tony
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 06:26 pm |
|
| I support the increase. The cost of doing business will never go down. The DNR and clubs have to come up with a way to make the equipment last longer and find ways to save money in the administration offices. Put more authority in the hands of the local clubs and not in Lansing. As far as out of state increases for nonresidents this is really not a good thing. I live in Toledo,oh and i register my sleds and boat in Michigan already. This is not new. We have been doing it for years. I even register my trailers for the life time plate there. It saves money for me on registrations and puts money in the state where i do all my riding. Most people who live around her do this.
|
spheedfareek
Member
| Joined: | Tue Oct 7th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 2 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Mon Oct 27th, 2008 08:54 pm |
|
| THIS PIC WAS IN GAYLORD CORRECT?
|
mbonnema
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 1 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Tue Oct 28th, 2008 05:28 am |
|
| The $8 for 3 years isn't any issue, but remember it goes to the state. Can you trust them to improve anything? The big cost is $35 per sled for a weekend warrior for a couple days on the trail in January (SouthWestern LP). Is it worth it, or should you just take a chance? Sometimes it seems that all the extra fees go for is more policing.
|
tony
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 27th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 3 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Oct 29th, 2008 07:32 pm |
|
| I agree that it does seem like the money is going to the policing of the trails. Which means they are making more money. When the money runs out to groom the trails and maintain them will they still send out the DNR or local sherrif to give us tickets on the trails? If they don't have money to put into the trails how are they paying for the police to go out and watch us? Those guys have some really nice equipment, Some one is paying for that!
|
flylipsdad
Member
|
Posted: Thu Oct 30th, 2008 06:53 pm |
|
| And,the only time they should Police the trails is when they are called on a complaint-cause the rest of the time we're better off without em.We ride Responsible and they come out to harass us.Wonder where all THAT MONEY goes??If its only to keep em out there,Cut the funding and put it into the trail system where it belongs.Just remember-No Yellow Line...The Right Sides Mine!!
|
rotaxman
Member
| Joined: | Thu Oct 30th, 2008 |
| Location: | |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Fri Oct 31st, 2008 02:55 am |
|
Are you guys kidding me??? Raise the trail permit ten bucks, HAHA. What ,why to help fatten these MSA guys wallets. There is nothing in writing that is increase is going toward. SURE we can all assume gas. But wrong. Maybe its for another burger.
Then increase the reg another eight dollars. Sure the State doesn't have enough money to waste. Lets give them some more.
If/when this increase goes into effect, I won't be buying trail stickers for any of my 4 sleds.
I think before all you guys jump on the band wagon and say sure its only 10 bucks. YEAH, This year. Look at the plan. They want it to be 75 bucks in the the 3 years.
Ok, I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just packing sand up your a...
Well see, I have a couple links I would love to post. But I red the rules prior to this post. The links in question were all about the MSA, and raising the trail fee.
|
trbomax
Member
|
Posted: Mon Nov 3rd, 2008 05:38 am |
|
There seems to be a bit of resentment re/ horses here.As the groomer coordinator for the blue bear,director for JVTC, and a member of 2 local clubs,sleds are obviously important to me.As an equine owner and rider for years also,I can tell you without reservation that equine traffic results in no apreacable impact of the trail.Nobody in there right mind would ride in the winter,in the snow,much less on a sled trail.The groomed trail surface makes a broken leg or legs a certainty for a horse,so where this horse s*** is comming from is a real mystery to me.I have ridden well over 100,000 miles on sleds in mi. and NEVER seen any horse s***. I have groomed thousands of miles also,no horse poop.I did find some dog poop in wolvorine once about 15yrs ago down by the rail station,but not on the trail.
Now for something for you all to think about.The new Mancelona Connector trail goes right past my house and mule barn.This was not by accident,it was done because I laid out that trail, and I used the route accross state land that we have been useing for years as a horse trail over to the hideaway.So in this case there wouldnt even BE a trail there were it not for horse people.
Lets discuss the currently being submitted trail from mancelona to Kalkaska.I did almost all the layout work on that one too,over a 2 yr period and it was mostly done with horses because its the only legal way to explore cross country where we ran it.More importantly,there are 3 CRITICAL road and water crossings that we could not use as a sled trail except for the fact that they were/are part of the shore to shore horse trail,so this trail is useing almost 2 miles of what is now ,and will remain, a designated horse trail.
So I get a bit disturbed when people who likely have never even been on a horse,start disrespecting them and thier owners.When there is not any gas for your sleds,when there is no more diesel for the groomer I run,Ill just get on Diva and ride the trail anyway.She's the one that figured it out in the first place.
Attachment: diva.jpg (Downloaded 64 times)
____________________
Director,,Jordan Valley Trail Council
Grooming co ordinator,Blue Bear Trail
MSA life member
ACSC member
Kalkaska snowmobile club member
Michigan Trail Riders Association (equine)
|
morg77
Member
| Joined: | Mon Oct 13th, 2008 |
| Location: | Monroe, Michigan USA |
| Posts: | 4 |
| Status: |
Offline
|
| Mana: | |
|
Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 03:53 am |
|
trbomax, as someone that is more involved in the admin of the trail systems what is your take on the proposed raise in fees. Will they be used or the intended purpose? How do you feel about the discussion on fees for other trail users?
Thanks for the hard work. It is appreciated.
|
trbomax
Member
|
Posted: Wed Nov 5th, 2008 05:56 am |
|
I honestly believe that the increases will further the creation of the best groomed trails in the midwest,and allow to maintain them.Something in the system has to change for this to happen and it will.I really do not see what everyone is so upset about. The price of everything has to go up, or things will stay the same and be buried.
Now if we were to put atv's on sled trails and open road shoulders ,those areas would (IMO) reap a reward that they cant even imagine at this point.For gods sake,do the math! There are more atv registrations in MI that sled registrations
Make all those state trails MULTI USE, and adjust the permit fees accordingly.ATV trails must be groomed at least every month so that they would be useable for sleds in november.Standardize the sighns and sighn code get rid of the signs on trees and all the double stop, curve,whatever signs.
IT CAN BE MADE TO WORK.
____________________
Director,,Jordan Valley Trail Council
Grooming co ordinator,Blue Bear Trail
MSA life member
ACSC member
Kalkaska snowmobile club member
Michigan Trail Riders Association (equine)
|
mride460
Banned
|
Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2008 06:49 pm |
|
fishweb wrote: SNOWMOBILING IS THE WINTER ECONOMY IN MICHIGAN
If the Michigan Government was smart they would include trail maintenance and expansion in the State budget each year since it brings more money to the state than every other sport other than golf! It feed every business in northern Michigan whether they admit it or not. But again or Gov. is not to smart, she believes spending my money on free access bike trails is a big thing, NOT! So I would be happy to pay more as long as it goes to the trails and made sure that it does by the MSA and it's members like me. Do not make it cost more to out of state riders, they are the ones spending most of the money here. From my 30 years of experience the locals ride from home and eat at home. COME ON UP! I welcome you to ride with us locals. If I had it my way I would give out-of-state riders a discount on trail permits to help with gas cost to make sure they can get here. But that's just me. DMG
The only problem I see with adding snowmo trail expansion and maintenance to the state budget is the state would then want control of the snowmobile funds that as of now they cant touch unless it is for specific snowmobile trail issues. Our money needs to stay taking care of our sport. Other than that I do agree with encouraging riders from other states and the southern part of MI to come on up and ride. There's no place like northern Michigan!!!
____________________
|
mride460
Banned
|
Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2008 06:54 pm |
|
auburntechnology.com wrote: i agree do not charge out of state users more. just have everyone pay . have bikers, hikers, and horses, skiers pay $5. they all use the trails and the dnr manages the trails . atv uses already have to get a trail permit. problem solved. then each year after they can raise the cost of it $5 to match our current price. then we will have the best trails year round.
Just a little correction, to my knowledge the atv sticker you talk of is a national forest service ORV sticker. None of that money goes into trail funds, it goes into the forest service general budget and spent all over the country. Please correct me if Im wrong...
____________________
|
mride460
Banned
|
Posted: Thu Nov 6th, 2008 07:08 pm |
|
trbomax wrote: I honestly believe that the increases will further the creation of the best groomed trails in the midwest,and allow to maintain them.Something in the system has to change for this to happen and it will.I really do not see what everyone is so upset about. The price of everything has to go up, or things will stay the same and be buried.
Now if we were to put atv's on sled trails and open road shoulders ,those areas would (IMO) reap a reward that they cant even imagine at this point.For gods sake,do the math! There are more atv registrations in MI that sled registrations
Make all those state trails MULTI USE, and adjust the permit fees accordingly.ATV trails must be groomed at least every month so that they would be useable for sleds in november.Standardize the sighns and sighn code get rid of the signs on trees and all the double stop, curve,whatever signs.
IT CAN BE MADE TO WORK.
I agree whole hearted!!! Keep up the good work!!!
____________________
|
Current time is 10:49 pm | Page:   1 2 3 4   |
|